Posts by out of the box

21

Experience being 'out of the loop' of helpful information in the cong.

by out of the box in

a post in this thread by dorayakii in this thread: .

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/7/95493/1.ashx made me think about this thread.to me, even from the outside, the society has always seemed legalistic and cold, eager to find faults, which is precisely the opposite to how jesus formed christianity.

however, many people don't see that perspective, because they are not in a position of imtimacy with the leaders of the organisation.

out of the box

Honesty, Yes We felt the same way as you do!

Berean, Yes, that was my take. When I talked to the kids, THEY could SEE clearly that we did not fit in with the 'elite' of the cong. That there was a 'click' we did not fit into. I brought this up with an elder of course, and he thought I was being paraoid. And of course not to discuss my views with others in the cong.

Bryan, this did not hurt us as deeply as the 'collected wrongs' that started happening to sort of expel us from the group. And by this is that it was like nausea before you lose your lunch. We felt we were of the outer fringe because we did not fit the 'cookie cutter' type member of the cong. If you read my other posts you will know we stayed in about 9 years! Things were not all that bad when the kids were young, but as we stayed in and the kids got older (they were 6 & 4 when I joined) there was no support for 'teens' and you know how inquisitive they are, bless them questioning the world as they should as we all should!

My opinion about group dynamics: As new members came to the cong. dynamics would change as it happens in groups. Let's say we were filling a spot in the cong. for the lower income working class not educated (no college) single parent family. You know the ones you have to give credit to for surviving on fumes and still managing. Now, someone comes along that 'does it' better than you! Now, you are cast aside for that attention and must 'reinvent' yourself. Nothing is static in this world. Well, since new membership doesn't come along every day, it is not something you are on the lookout for. This I feel is what happens in the 'outer rim' of the clicks. This is just my observation. Single moms, etc are out there. If they are 'marryable' to the ones that are in the cong. then the approach is different like when I got baptized and the vultures started swarming in!

I say this because once I left the org. I went back to college and got my B.S. I observed different behavior towards me. I went back to that same cong. to visit about 5 years later. A few of the brothers who had been married to and were Pioneering were now divorced! And the ones that were 'off the wall' to me were gone. I was amazed how different they all were by my observation. A couple of them came by where I was sitting and wispered to me that they wanted to meet with me after the meeting. I had a swarm of older members come by to see me. I gave them 10 minutes of 'MY' news of school and how I was doing and then had to 'run' and would come by again before leaving (was visiting from another state where I now lived). The size of the cong. was 1/3 at least (so many empty seats!!!). I was a much more confident person, sure of myself and proud to be who I was. The main question by two of the divorced brothers was 'are you going to be staying around here?' And the way I figured it... now my kids were grown (last one a teen (calm well adjusted) now) and I had a degree and a JOB and could support a Pioneering brother!!!

Delilah, I was so PI$$ED off too! I had to use that anger constuctively so that I would not go insane! We did OK, my son didn't get permantly scared by that insident. We understand and felt people had different ways of living after all I had discussed life with them and I continued to discuss this insident with him so that he could tell me how he felt and we worked it out. It was the elders trying to protect the reflection on the society that got us. We felt were being sacrificed (including the other boy who was done wrong as well) and no one cared what happened to us who we now knew were NOTHING in the scheme of things. And the clear vision we now had of how the org was run! And how could WE keep ourselves under this type of 'so called love' and the 'truth' that we could clearly see had NO TRUTH in it! We had a choice to make and we chose to start to leave. I didn't want to move too quickly so we could adjust after all I had been in for 9 years. My two oldest were now teens and they handled the quick leave pretty well except for their 'dive' into the world where they tried everything including pot. That was a scary time for me. They survived and so did I. We have done well and will contiunue to think for ourselves. My now adult kids and I are not anywhere near the borg.

Thank you for all your kind and supportive comments! I am grateful for the time you took to post about this to me.

out fo the box

21

Experience being 'out of the loop' of helpful information in the cong.

by out of the box in

a post in this thread by dorayakii in this thread: .

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/7/95493/1.ashx made me think about this thread.to me, even from the outside, the society has always seemed legalistic and cold, eager to find faults, which is precisely the opposite to how jesus formed christianity.

however, many people don't see that perspective, because they are not in a position of imtimacy with the leaders of the organisation.

out of the box

I know that there are worst things that happen, but is it any wonder that people LEAVE in DROVES? And a JW calls it weeding out?

out of the box

21

Experience being 'out of the loop' of helpful information in the cong.

by out of the box in

a post in this thread by dorayakii in this thread: .

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/7/95493/1.ashx made me think about this thread.to me, even from the outside, the society has always seemed legalistic and cold, eager to find faults, which is precisely the opposite to how jesus formed christianity.

however, many people don't see that perspective, because they are not in a position of imtimacy with the leaders of the organisation.

out of the box

a post in this thread by dorayakii in this thread:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/7/95493/1.ashx made me think about this thread.

To me, even from the outside, the society has always seemed legalistic and cold, eager to find faults, which is precisely the opposite to how Jesus formed Christianity. However, many people don't see that perspective, because they are not in a position of imtimacy with the leaders of the organisation. Maybe it's because my father is a particularly cold and legalistic elder that i've been exposed to so much of the society's "dirty linin". This insight into the central core of the organisation was like opening a box and seeing with my own eyes what i already knew was there.

When you are not 'privi' to information they don't seem to care if it hurts the outer rim or out of the loop for info the cong.

There was a pioneer couple that had recently got married and she had two sons. One of the boys wanted friendship with my oldest son. They were 11-12 at the time. The mother called me to talk to me about a sleep over. We all agreed it would be fun. We discussed movies watched, food that would be consumed and settled on the boys coming to my home. All was planned in advance at least a week. Everyone was looking forward to this sleep over. I made cookies, we popped popcorn, had pizza, etc.

When the boys left the next day, my son was acting funny, you know quiet and withdrawn. It took weeks before... (with coaxing and loving hugs) to find out the problem. This oldest boy slept with my son (double bed). During the night my son was awakened by this boy's hands on his private parts! When my son told him to stop, the boy wanted to 'make out'. Of course this was the first experience of any kind for my son and didn't know what to do. My son told him that he would kill him if he touched him again and moved to sleeping on the floor.

During the time after this event, of course we went to a few meetings where this boy that had slept over threatened my son that if he told (his step dad now an elder) that they would get us in trouble. My poor son lived with this... This boy got other boys to call my son a sissy and names in the coat room, bathroom, and in the parking lot where I couln't not observe. I was so upset when he told me this!

I called the boy's mother who had arranged everything with me and asked her what was going on and why didn't she tell me? She said, 'oh he will outgrow it, we are egnoring it till it passes, the elders know about it'. THEN she proceeded to tell me that they pray about it to Jehovah! I was upset and told her that I had no problems with her son and his orientation or thinking and was not judging him. BUT if she HAD TOLD me, there would have been a great evening with the events and we would have drove him home afterwards, OR given him his own bed to sleep in with his own privacy and my son's! But why the 'surprise' on us and my son!!! She KNEW what the sleeping arrangements were! She even suggested that young boys try this and my son was probably doing it too! I was furious. No apologies. I thought how arragant! She was not helping her son nor talking to him to find out what HE was all about. She cared nothing for my son who thinks differently and had that awful experience of being afraid to tell me for fear of retaliation!

I called an elder, and basically he told me the same thing and asked me not to talk about it with others and that they were keeping an eye on the stituation! Believe me this changed the things I did for that family and how I felt of that elder. I learned that I had to watch out for myself and my children.

I sat my son and daughter down and filled them in on what happened. They then proceeded to tell me of all the teasing (because they wore old clothes to the meeting, and we were poor at the time because I was raising them alone, etc.) What I heard them say about the 'truth' they were living (an actual hell, and they hated the org). That really made me think. I told them they didn't have to go anymore, nor did they ever have to go back if their hearts were not in it. I wrote about the events that got me out before in another post, but this really helped me to make my decision.

We have never looked back nor ever thought we would go back. I visited a few times because I wanted to see who was left and what kind of path they all went down after we left. I saw they were not blessed because it all fell apart. My family though is still together and we are alive and well.

I hope any same-sex readers were not offended by any of my words here, I by-no-means meant that being gay is wrong. Our being upset was because of the way we were not told so that we could have dealt with 'my son's' experience as we saw fit. We had choices too that were just trampled on. I don't believe ANY one or ANY organization can tell anyone how to live their lives!

out of the box

17

just read 'crisis of conscience' by Ray Franz...

by Lynne Y in

unbelievable.... matters presented were really disturbing and hurting... not that information presented in this book is new, but i didn't think it could be this bad... .

especially thins one.. a letter written by the society to all circuit and district overseers.

(p.293)keep in mind that to be disfellowshipped, an apostate does not have to be a promoter of apostate views.

out of the box

dorayakii,

I enjoyed reading your take on this topic. I like the way you think deeply about things, you take me on a clear path to your thought process and convictions. What a privilage you had to be able to see into the workings of a cong. You must understand how strange it is to see all that behavior and things being swept under the rug from the lower ranks! Thanks.

out of the box

69

NO LONGER SATISFIED AS I WAS, WITH JWD FORUM

by outoftheorg in

no this is not another { i am leaving this forum }.

it is just that i no longer am so hungry for the many posts as i once was.

i could not wait to get home and sign on to read all the posts from newbies and the heavy hitters.

out of the box

outoftheorg,

I wrote a few words before in this thread, but this morning read the whole thread and your other responses.

I am sorry to hear about your wife's problems and with this on her mind she may not have extra time for you right now and that can add to the alianation feelings you might have. And as for worrying about your sons, remember THEY did this to themselves. You can only do what you can do, you cannot change them. It is hard to forget we can only change things that CAN change with our influence. Is your wife the one who usually 'gets you in a better mood' when things get rough? Roles may have to change for a time. You may have to take on the 'come on, get up and keep going' reminder in the house for a while. I am sure you can do it! It just takes concentrating on things 'outside' of one's own needs for a while and concentrate on who and what needs you for a time.

And about your being 70!!! My dad is 76 and he beat cancer 14 years ago (was given 6 months to live back then). Within the last 15 years we finally have a relationship because of his life-scare he made amends when he found out he had cancer. I got to know him (after abandoning us years ago). So, now that I am close to him I feel his pain with the cancer treatment aftermath on his body. He is in pain every day to the tune of 75mg of morphine twice a day and still is in pain. He got a scare two weeks ago, and the biopsy said not cancer. He was already saying 'good-bye' to me he thought he was on 'borrowed time'. He LOVES to work on antique cars and thought he had to give that up. This is what I told him and I hope it will help you. 'Dad, go get the tests, rest and wait for the Doctor's diagnosis. I won't accept from you the idea it's over because you run off with this idea in your head. Now, when the tests come back and they tell you the cancer has not returned, you get your medication adjusted for YOUR needs and then go to the next car show (happened to be in a few weeks from then) and look for another antique car to work on and DREAM about your cars, look at them, touch them and love them. Cancer cannot take that away from you!' Anyway, the tests came back OK, he went to the car show, has found a car (not from the show) that needs him (to fix up) and he is on top again. He said 'I thought my life was over' I said 'Dad, it's over when it's over, in the meantime LIVE'. If you still have your health, you are RICH! We all can't be rich in everything, but I am sure all of us here can count a few things we have that others don't YOUNG OR OLDER - NONE of us have it ALL! You have way more than my dad and you are younger than him! That's a start!

I didn't mean to make this post long. I was trying to deliver a short 'pep talk'. Oh well... But I think that being 70 is still YOUNG in this time in the world. You are alive as long as you are breathing! What are your hobbies, what was your passion (besides young gals). And, do you get sunshine? Or do you sit at the computer for hours (can drive anyone nuts!) Do you like to read, fix things, make things? I am 56 and when I hear a man saying he is 70 I don't think that is old! The time-clock ticks for ALL of us outoftheorg, you are NOT ALONE, JWs, non JWs, worldly, wicked... "time and unforseen occurance befall us all"! If you are alive (if you are reading this post, there is a great chance you are!) then concentrate on living. Sounds easy and a trifle thing to do, just try it before knocking it. OK? You like humor, got any good jokes? Maybe you could post some!

Lighten up on yourself and stop expecting so much from yourself, be easier on yourself and learn to love you for just being you! No one here expects you to be perfect! You think you got it bad, Hey, hear the one about the two flies sitting on the edge of the toilet seat? One flew away and the other one got pissed off! A four year old told my friend that one! Ha ha! try going here and reading some of this explanation from the http://members.aol.com/beyondjw/atpol.htm http://members.aol.com/beyondjw/ forum.

out of the box

34

I love Liver! What's your favorite recipe?

by Rod P in

years ago i was driving down the highway one night, listening to a radio talk show host.. he had some time to kill, so he said to the audience, "i know, let's talk about liver!

how many of you out there like liver?

and if you do like liver, do you have a favorite recipe.".

out of the box

When my dad was in the Army in Alaska he was a cook for a while on base. He used to fix the liver for the guys and they could not get enough of it! He fried the liver with cut up apples. After the liver is cooked, throw away the apple pieces because they will have absorbed the blood and liver taste. The liver will taste fresh. I cook it this way and like it better than the heavier taste with bacon or gravy.

out of the box

9

Being told the expression "We're All in the Same Boat"

by LongHairGal in

i used to hate hearing the expression "we're all in the same boat".

usually it came up in conversation when you were discussing the state of the world and financial affairs, etc.

i used to particularly hate it when it came from somebody (usually an elder) who had a business and a great deal of money.

out of the box

Well, the rich people of my old cong NEVER shared! They seemed to stick together by income level, you know you can go away weekends and eat out together after the meetings.

out of the box

3

THE END OF DEATH ?

by Erich in

does a british researcher hold the key to life eternal?.

by rafaela von bredow

the dream of eternal life is as old as mankind.

out of the box

Your point?

out of the box

69

NO LONGER SATISFIED AS I WAS, WITH JWD FORUM

by outoftheorg in

no this is not another { i am leaving this forum }.

it is just that i no longer am so hungry for the many posts as i once was.

i could not wait to get home and sign on to read all the posts from newbies and the heavy hitters.

out of the box

outoftheorg,

I did read your posts! Thank you for your insight! I wish you the best!

So, you need a break, so you want to go, so just go. I did notice you and yes, your absence will be noticed, just as you noticed the newbies even if you didn't post! And you will NOT be DFd!!! And you will be welcomed back with open arms when you decide to return!

out of the box

17

just read 'crisis of conscience' by Ray Franz...

by Lynne Y in

unbelievable.... matters presented were really disturbing and hurting... not that information presented in this book is new, but i didn't think it could be this bad... .

especially thins one.. a letter written by the society to all circuit and district overseers.

(p.293)keep in mind that to be disfellowshipped, an apostate does not have to be a promoter of apostate views.

out of the box

I have not read the book yet, but will buy it and read it soon! Thanks for heads up on the info!

out of the box